Somewhere in the middle of America
I've always been intrigued by the game of Omaha, and figure I’ll need to learn it someday as when I’ve dominated the Hold’em game I’ll need a new victim. So I find myself playing the odd PL Omaha tourney now and then.
Now I don’t think that I should try to learn a game in a tournament setting, especially a low buy-in one, but I don’t have the patience or understanding of the game yet to play a ring Omaha game. I also usually try to stay away from Hi/Low, since I really don’t understand it that well. Obviously I understand what a low is, but I don’t really understand what hands I should be playing. Actually even in regular Omaha I don’t really know what hands I should be playing, but at least it’s a little clearer.
What’s really intrigued me about Omaha is that out of the 3 MTT’s I’ve played, I’ve cashed in 2 of them, and have won my fair share of sit&go’s. I can’t explain this whatsoever. Often times when I play in these MTT’s I find myself laughing at my own ineptitude. I’ll be sitting there on the turn after calling pre and post flop bets and all I’ll have is 3rd pair and a gut shot straight draw wondering how the fuck I convinced myself that I should be here. But somehow I manage to be successful and I don’t know why.
Some things I know about Omaha:
Draw to the nut flush/straight only. I’ve been beaten enough in my short Omaha career that the king high (or worse) flush (especially if there had been many people seeing the river) is rarely good. So if I’m calculating pot odds and such, I’ll need to do it with the ace in my hand.
A pot sized bet with the nuts on the flop or turn is correct. Actually I’m not sure if it’s correct but with the games that I’ve been playing, if I flop the nut straight/set, I’m going to lead out betting. People seem to love chasing and suckouts are approximately 83.4% more common in Omaha. I’ll gladly take the pot right there with the nuts if someone folds.
And that’s pretty much it.
Things I want to learn about Omaha:
How strong of a hand you need to bet. Often times I’ll be sitting there with 2 pair on a semi scary board and wonder if I should bet it. Even with set’s sometimes I feel like I may already be beaten. But I wonder if it is profitable to bet TPTK with limited opponents seeing the flop. For this reason I generally end up check / calling with whatever and end up betting the absolute nuts, which clearly isn’t optimal.
When is check raising the best play. Surely check-raising has its place in Omaha, but I rarely see it. I suppose if you flop the nuts but they are vulnerable to draw outs and are in early position (ie flop top set on a board of 7s8dKs) you may consider check - raising to limit the pot odds someone would have to chase. That is if you are sure that someone will indeed bet.
What hand requirements I need preflop. Not only do I need to learn what I need to play, I need to learn when I should be raising or calling preflop with them. It seems that some hold’em tactics carry over here, but I’m not clear on what you need. Like, in hold’em, generally, if you have a drawing hand like JTs or 66, you want to have a few limpers in the pot with you to give you the correct odds to see a flop and hit it hard. If you have a hand like QQ or AK, you want to limit the number of people seeing the flop to out draw you. Now in Omaha, if you are sitting there with 6789, I think you want to see a flop, but I’m not sure. Maybe that’s a folding hand unless it’s a family pot situation. I really don’t know. How about a hand like AKJT single suited? Is that a hand to be raising or calling with preflop? It seems that most people will raise with AAxx or KKxx in their hand, so I’ve copied them. What they do after the preflop raise is make their continuation bet hoping that their AA is still the best hand, but that seems pretty ignorant seeing as how 2 pair or better can be made so easily.
And much more.
I doubt I’ll ever become a pro Omaha player, but it would be nice to be somewhat proficient in a different form of poker, and not just another twenty something no limit hold’em player cause I saws it on the TV.
And just to show you how bad I truly am, here is a hand that basically took me out of the last MTT I played (was 3rd in chips at the time). And I know how hard it is to read Omaha hands so I’ll just post it straight up.
Seat 1: RikkiDee (19365 in chips)
Seat 2: dcc00 (17990 in chips)
Seat 3: RedHeadedIan (14685 in chips)
Seat 4: Tre Dog (1185 in chips)
Seat 5: *VD* (2510 in chips)
Seat 6: LMNB (8823 in chips)
Seat 7: zenodro11 (10600 in chips)
Seat 8: SHOO_SHINE (23558 in chips)
Seat 9: vgr926 (12740 in chips)
RedHeadedIan: posts small blind 200
Tre Dog: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RikkiDee [Jh Qh Jc 9s]
*VD*: folds
LMNB: folds
zenodro11: calls 400
SHOO_SHINE: calls 400
vgr926: folds
RikkiDee: calls 400
dcc00: folds
RedHeadedIan: calls 200
Tre Dog: raises 785 to 1185 and is all-in
zenodro11: calls 785
SHOO_SHINE: calls 785
RikkiDee: calls 785
RedHeadedIan: calls 785
*** FLOP *** [4h 9d Th]
RedHeadedIan: checks
zenodro11: checks
SHOO_SHINE: checks
RikkiDee: bets 3600
RedHeadedIan: calls 3600
zenodro11: folds
SHOO_SHINE: folds
*** TURN *** [4h 9d Th] [6d]
RedHeadedIan: bets 9900 and is all-in
RikkiDee: calls 9900
*** RIVER *** [4h 9d Th 6d] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RedHeadedIan: shows [Kh 8h 4d 7c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
RikkiDee: shows [Jh Qh Jc 9s] (a pair of Jacks)
RedHeadedIan collected 27000 from side pot
Tre Dog: shows [Ks Ah Ad 2d] (a flush, Ace high)
Tre Dog collected 5925 from main pot
Now I bet there on the button with what would normally be 15 outs (open ended with a flush draw) and I may have the best hand with the JJ at this point. So in my stupid little brain, that bet makes sense, but who knows. The other problem is that anyone calling me will have the nut flush draw and my flush will be void, which is excellent. When the 6 comes on the turn, it looks meaningless to me, I don’t even see the possible straight. And since this opponent check/called me on the flop then went all in for a big bet on the turn I imagined that he was making a move with a draw, and since I still may have had the best hand / draw, I called. Clearly I was wrong. And that’s the thing about this game, you have to know what hand is the nuts, cause that is what you are up against if someone is betting.
Some day I’ll learn.
Now I don’t think that I should try to learn a game in a tournament setting, especially a low buy-in one, but I don’t have the patience or understanding of the game yet to play a ring Omaha game. I also usually try to stay away from Hi/Low, since I really don’t understand it that well. Obviously I understand what a low is, but I don’t really understand what hands I should be playing. Actually even in regular Omaha I don’t really know what hands I should be playing, but at least it’s a little clearer.
What’s really intrigued me about Omaha is that out of the 3 MTT’s I’ve played, I’ve cashed in 2 of them, and have won my fair share of sit&go’s. I can’t explain this whatsoever. Often times when I play in these MTT’s I find myself laughing at my own ineptitude. I’ll be sitting there on the turn after calling pre and post flop bets and all I’ll have is 3rd pair and a gut shot straight draw wondering how the fuck I convinced myself that I should be here. But somehow I manage to be successful and I don’t know why.
Some things I know about Omaha:
Draw to the nut flush/straight only. I’ve been beaten enough in my short Omaha career that the king high (or worse) flush (especially if there had been many people seeing the river) is rarely good. So if I’m calculating pot odds and such, I’ll need to do it with the ace in my hand.
A pot sized bet with the nuts on the flop or turn is correct. Actually I’m not sure if it’s correct but with the games that I’ve been playing, if I flop the nut straight/set, I’m going to lead out betting. People seem to love chasing and suckouts are approximately 83.4% more common in Omaha. I’ll gladly take the pot right there with the nuts if someone folds.
And that’s pretty much it.
Things I want to learn about Omaha:
How strong of a hand you need to bet. Often times I’ll be sitting there with 2 pair on a semi scary board and wonder if I should bet it. Even with set’s sometimes I feel like I may already be beaten. But I wonder if it is profitable to bet TPTK with limited opponents seeing the flop. For this reason I generally end up check / calling with whatever and end up betting the absolute nuts, which clearly isn’t optimal.
When is check raising the best play. Surely check-raising has its place in Omaha, but I rarely see it. I suppose if you flop the nuts but they are vulnerable to draw outs and are in early position (ie flop top set on a board of 7s8dKs) you may consider check - raising to limit the pot odds someone would have to chase. That is if you are sure that someone will indeed bet.
What hand requirements I need preflop. Not only do I need to learn what I need to play, I need to learn when I should be raising or calling preflop with them. It seems that some hold’em tactics carry over here, but I’m not clear on what you need. Like, in hold’em, generally, if you have a drawing hand like JTs or 66, you want to have a few limpers in the pot with you to give you the correct odds to see a flop and hit it hard. If you have a hand like QQ or AK, you want to limit the number of people seeing the flop to out draw you. Now in Omaha, if you are sitting there with 6789, I think you want to see a flop, but I’m not sure. Maybe that’s a folding hand unless it’s a family pot situation. I really don’t know. How about a hand like AKJT single suited? Is that a hand to be raising or calling with preflop? It seems that most people will raise with AAxx or KKxx in their hand, so I’ve copied them. What they do after the preflop raise is make their continuation bet hoping that their AA is still the best hand, but that seems pretty ignorant seeing as how 2 pair or better can be made so easily.
And much more.
I doubt I’ll ever become a pro Omaha player, but it would be nice to be somewhat proficient in a different form of poker, and not just another twenty something no limit hold’em player cause I saws it on the TV.
And just to show you how bad I truly am, here is a hand that basically took me out of the last MTT I played (was 3rd in chips at the time). And I know how hard it is to read Omaha hands so I’ll just post it straight up.
Seat 1: RikkiDee (19365 in chips)
Seat 2: dcc00 (17990 in chips)
Seat 3: RedHeadedIan (14685 in chips)
Seat 4: Tre Dog (1185 in chips)
Seat 5: *VD* (2510 in chips)
Seat 6: LMNB (8823 in chips)
Seat 7: zenodro11 (10600 in chips)
Seat 8: SHOO_SHINE (23558 in chips)
Seat 9: vgr926 (12740 in chips)
RedHeadedIan: posts small blind 200
Tre Dog: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RikkiDee [Jh Qh Jc 9s]
*VD*: folds
LMNB: folds
zenodro11: calls 400
SHOO_SHINE: calls 400
vgr926: folds
RikkiDee: calls 400
dcc00: folds
RedHeadedIan: calls 200
Tre Dog: raises 785 to 1185 and is all-in
zenodro11: calls 785
SHOO_SHINE: calls 785
RikkiDee: calls 785
RedHeadedIan: calls 785
*** FLOP *** [4h 9d Th]
RedHeadedIan: checks
zenodro11: checks
SHOO_SHINE: checks
RikkiDee: bets 3600
RedHeadedIan: calls 3600
zenodro11: folds
SHOO_SHINE: folds
*** TURN *** [4h 9d Th] [6d]
RedHeadedIan: bets 9900 and is all-in
RikkiDee: calls 9900
*** RIVER *** [4h 9d Th 6d] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RedHeadedIan: shows [Kh 8h 4d 7c] (a straight, Six to Ten)
RikkiDee: shows [Jh Qh Jc 9s] (a pair of Jacks)
RedHeadedIan collected 27000 from side pot
Tre Dog: shows [Ks Ah Ad 2d] (a flush, Ace high)
Tre Dog collected 5925 from main pot
Now I bet there on the button with what would normally be 15 outs (open ended with a flush draw) and I may have the best hand with the JJ at this point. So in my stupid little brain, that bet makes sense, but who knows. The other problem is that anyone calling me will have the nut flush draw and my flush will be void, which is excellent. When the 6 comes on the turn, it looks meaningless to me, I don’t even see the possible straight. And since this opponent check/called me on the flop then went all in for a big bet on the turn I imagined that he was making a move with a draw, and since I still may have had the best hand / draw, I called. Clearly I was wrong. And that’s the thing about this game, you have to know what hand is the nuts, cause that is what you are up against if someone is betting.
Some day I’ll learn.
posted by RikkiDee at 6:02 PM
2 Comments:
I played in a Omaha home game with the same group that I usually play Hold'em with. I had just finished reading Theory of Poker and decided to practice the semi-bluff concept -- a lot. I got lucky and hit when I was called and stole pots when I didn't catch cards. Before the 2nd round I was up about 7x the buy in (rebuys were allowed). I lost at the final table when I bet heavy trying to push out remaining flush draws when I flopped a baby flush. Of course someone else had already made a full-grown flush. That someone was known for making crazy bluffs and when she put me all in I called and lost.
I often wonder if the semi-bluff is as successful in Omaha as it can be in NL Holdem. It just seems that people will stick around a lot more so the bluff wouldn't work as well. I suppose if you had like 25 outs or something, which I'm sure is possible somehow in Omaha that it would be efficient to build the pot. But I'm still trying to figure out myself if the semi-bluff is worth it, since you lose a lot of folding equity compared to Holdem.
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